In 1997, a seemingly routine interview for VH1 turned into a historic moment in music history. George Harrison, the legendary Beatle, sat down with then-VH1 personality John Fugelsang for what was intended to be a brief promotional appearance. Unbeknownst to anyone at the time, this interview would become George Harrison’s final public interview and performance.
Years later, Chuck Daly, an aspiring journalist who had interned at CNN, had the opportunity to interview John Fugelsang, who had since become a well-known political analyst and comedian. Daly sought to explore Fugelsang’s unique and unintentional role in this significant piece of musical history.
CHUCK: To start, how did your journey in show business begin, John?
JOHN: My beginnings were in regional theatre as a teenager. After graduating from New York University Film School, I delved into experimental theatre and then stand-up comedy. Stand-up was the catalyst that opened the door to broadcasting, leading to my first job as a VJ. Interestingly, my very first TV appearance wasn’t even music-related; it was on Roger Ailes’ “America’s Talking” network, doing political humor about filibusters. Imagine, my TV debut was cracking jokes about filibusters – quite the start for a young comic!
CHUCK: Your path then led you to VH1. It feels like the VH1 of ten years ago was a completely different entity compared to what it is today.
JOHN: It’s quite a story how I ended up at VH1. I was actually performing a show in Greenwich Village where I was openly critical of VH1, particularly during their Michael Bolton and Kenny G era. Ironically, they approached me after seeing that show. They explained they were rebranding the channel, aiming to evolve it into a more mature music channel for the MTV generation who had, shall we say, grown up a bit. They asked if I’d be interested in joining them as their resident comedian. I eventually became their unofficial classic rock expert, conducting interviews and hosting live specials with icons like Paul McCartney and Garth Brooks. And, of course, the special with George Harrison, which, as fate would have it, became his last ever public performance.
VH1, in a way, became my television graduate school. I learned the craft of broadcasting and interviewing by being in the presence of and speaking with legends like Pete Townsend, Robbie Robertson, Tony Bennett, and Willie Nelson. Meeting these idols was incredibly fun and formative, allowing me to hone my skills. That’s precisely what VH1 promised when they offered me the job – a chance to learn and grow. However, the fundamental challenge with music television remains: people adore music, and they love TV, but the combination of music on TV has always been a tougher sell. We would produce these incredible all-star concerts that, despite their quality, often struggled to find an audience.
For example, we had Eric Clapton and Dr. John perform a duet special that virtually no one watched. Yet, if we aired a rerun of a five-year-old Gallagher performance, the ratings would skyrocket. It’s a sad truth about commercial media, but it’s the reality.
CHUCK: You mentioned that the George Harrison interview was initially intended to be brief but was later re-edited after his passing.
JOHN: That interview was a deeply enriching experience for me. I was on the verge of flying to London to interview Paul McCartney for a live special when VH1 asked me to extend my stay in New York for an extra day. They told me, ‘George Harrison and Ravi Shankar are coming in.’ George had just produced Chants of India and was scheduled to give us a quick ten-minute sound bite before leaving. As the world’s biggest George Harrison fan – I was raised Catholic, and deeply admired how he used his faith as a springboard for deeper spiritual exploration – I was ecstatic.
I wanted to delve into topics like God, meditation, the afterlife, and the soul. Throughout the interview, the producer was constantly in my ear, urging me to steer the conversation towards John Lennon! But George wasn’t particularly keen on discussing the Beatles at length. Despite my producer’s wishes, we talked about spirituality and faith, topics that clearly resonated with George. Then, spontaneously, he picked up a guitar and played four songs he had never performed live before. It was an incredibly intimate and special moment, and it ultimately became his last ever public performance.
Later, when George became ill, I was in Montreal for the Comedy Festival. VH1 contacted me and asked me to fly back to help rework the interview into a longer special. And after he passed away, they re-aired it, reinstating much of the religious and spiritual content that had been initially cut. Looking back, I was a very inexperienced interviewer. I was young, nervous, meeting my idol, making awkward jokes, interrupting him, stammering – I was a mess! But George was incredibly gracious and patient. Perhaps it was my lack of polish, my genuine enthusiasm, and the fact that I was genuinely interested in the topics he wanted to discuss that made him enjoy the experience.
For many years, I felt embarrassed about my performance in that interview, feeling like I had been a bumbling idiot in front of my idol. It wasn’t until years later, when the full interview was re-aired after his passing, that I saw it in a new light. The day George died, VH1 broadcasted this extended interview – an interview featuring George Harrison engaging in a deep conversation about God and the soul with a then 25-year-old kid.
This experience was profoundly impactful for me. It helped me recognize how much I had grown since that young, awkward interviewer. Meeting George and having that conversation was a significant spiritual experience in my own life. Even now, years later, I still have people – often big, burly guys – approach me in airports to hug me and tell me how much that interview meant to them. I think it speaks to a deep spiritual hunger in people, a yearning for more nuanced and profound discussions about faith than what is typically presented in mainstream media. I’m proud to have played a small part in facilitating a dialogue about these weighty subjects on a popular platform.
CHUCK: It certainly seems George Harrison was a truly enlightened individual.
JOHN: Absolutely. Just listen to the live version of “My Sweet Lord” from his 1991 tour in Japan with Eric Clapton –
CHUCK: From the Live in Japan album.
JOHN: Yes. Listen to the additional lyrics he incorporates. He weaves in ‘Hallelujah,’ ‘Hare Krishna,’ drawing from so many different faiths, incorporating Vedic chants into the middle of the song. It resonates with the teaching of Jesus, “In my father’s house, there are many mansions.” I always interpreted that as an endorsement of diversity in spiritual paths.
Planet Earth itself is incredibly diverse. I believe there are many paths to spiritual awareness, and George was someone unafraid to explore those paths, rather than rigidly insisting that his way was the only way, which is, in essence, the core of fundamentalism.
CHUCK: He also performed “Any Road” during that session, I believe – a song from his final album?
JOHN: Yes, I’m very familiar with that album, I love it. George famously cautioned Jeff Lynne not to make it sound too polished, though Jeff himself feels it still ended up sounding a bit too refined. I often wish that Olivia [Harrison, George’s widow] would consider giving the tapes to producer Rick Rubin someday for a stripped-down, more raw release. Rick Rubin was actually present during that weekend of the VH1 special.
CHUCK: Oh, really?
JOHN: Yes. I’ve always wished George had recorded with Rick Rubin. I even dream of Paul McCartney collaborating with him. If Rubin can produce a cool-sounding album with Neil Diamond in this era, he could certainly do wonders with McCartney.
CHUCK: Absolutely.
JOHN: But yes, “Any Road” – that was the very first and only time George ever performed it live, right there in our studio. He didn’t even have all the lyrics completely finalized yet. It’s a wonderful song, incredibly uplifting spiritually. And, in a bizarre bit of trivia, my knee actually makes an appearance in the official music video for “Any Road.”
CHUCK: Seriously!
JOHN: Yes! They needed some performance footage of George playing and singing, and the only footage they had was from our session, so they incorporated a couple of shots from our interview to make the music video more special.
Martin Scorsese also used some footage from our interview in his HBO special on George Harrison. So, as a perpetually out-of-work actor, I can now legitimately say I’ve been in a Scorsese movie!
CHUCK: Regarding the George special, I understand there were only about 30 people present for the taping?
JOHN: Initially, when we started filming, the studio was completely empty. George was only supposed to be there for a brief time, but he ended up staying for four hours, which completely surprised everyone. No one quite understood why he stayed so long. By the time we wrapped up, the studio had filled up – Rick Rubin was there, Timothy White from Billboard Magazine, some record company executives. It was like everyone had gotten on the phone and called each other, and by the end of the session, I didn’t even recognize half the people in suits in the studio. When it began, it was just me, George, Ravi, and Ravi’s wife. It definitely became a much more eventful day as it progressed.
CHUCK: Are there any highlights from the interview that didn’t make it into the aired specials?
JOHN: Oh, let me think… it’s hard to recall specifically what was cut, as I’ve reviewed all the tapes numerous times. It’s difficult to differentiate what made it into the final specials. Because there were actually two TV specials that resulted from that interview. Initially, VH1 released a rather cursory half-hour special called “George Harrison and Ravi Shankar: Yin and Yang,” which, in retrospect, feels somewhat reductive and doesn’t quite capture the depth of either artist. That initial special didn’t include much of the spiritual content. Some of what was left out included some of George’s more pointed humor.
For instance, at one point I mentioned, “George, I read in Beatle Fan Magazine that you were in Monte Carlo at a club, went to a piano, and announced, ‘This is my new single,’ and played a song. Are you planning to release a new album soon?” It had been about ten years since his last solo album at that point. And he simply replied, “Oh, I was probably drunk at the time.” Then, towards the very end of the interview, knowing about the sometimes-strained relationship between him and Paul McCartney, I asked, “How do you feel about Jeff Lynne, who produced the Wilburys and your records, potentially producing some tracks for Paul McCartney?” George’s response was just, “Who? What? Who? Who?” The entire room erupted in laughter.
Two days later, I was in London working with McCartney and recounted this anecdote to his manager. His manager’s response was, “Oh, he won’t work with us, but he’ll go do four hours with you.” It was a rather surreal and amusing situation to be in for those few days.
CHUCK: It does seem like they had a complex and interesting kinship.
JOHN: I believe there was deep love and respect between them, but also a significant undercurrent of resentment, particularly from George. You can see it if you watch Let It Be, if you can even find a copy these days. I doubt it will ever be officially released on DVD. But watching it, you can understand why Paul felt the need to exert more control over the band, and equally, why George resented Paul’s perceived control.
CHUCK: Did you discuss with George the “new” John Lennon demo songs that the remaining Beatles completed for the Anthology project?
JOHN: We touched on it briefly. George was eager to have his own anthology project released, and his estate is now beginning to realize that with the Early Takes: Volume 1 album that Olivia is releasing. Regarding the Lennon demos, Yoko Ono had given Paul three of John’s demos. Two were eventually released, “Real Love” and “Free as a Bird.” Both, in my opinion, are terrific recordings. “Free as a Bird,” especially, is incredibly beautiful and deserves to be considered a genuine Beatles song in every sense. I think it has aged exceptionally well.
The third song, however, was not released because George blocked it. Now that he’s passed away, there have been many reports suggesting that McCartney and Ringo are planning to release it at some point. I have mixed feelings about that prospect.
CHUCK: Those two songs are particularly special to me because they are the only Beatles songs released within my lifetime.
JOHN: Me too.
CHUCK: I wonder if that third song will ever see the light of day.
JOHN: I also wonder if it will. Of course, I’m curious to hear it, but I also have some apprehension. Jeff Lynne essentially became like the fifth Beatle on those tracks, and I think he did a fantastic job. “Free as a Bird” remains astonishing, and it’s wonderful to spot all the subtle Beatles references woven throughout it. I was among those who felt “Real Love” sounded a bit too polished, but still undeniably charming. I would love to see Yoko release John’s original demos someday; that would be fascinating to hear. They are heavily bootlegged, but it would be great to hear a properly released version and understand what could be done with it.
Though, on a slightly more concerning note, it also makes me a little uneasy, imagining a future where we might hear Courtney Love using old Kurt Cobain answering machine messages to create new songs.
CHUCK: How did Paul McCartney’s personality differ from George’s during your interactions with them?
JOHN: Oh, they are very different personality types. I’ve had the pleasure of working with Paul a few times now. I don’t think television cameras even begin to capture how truly interesting he is in person. I’ve never seen an interview that even comes close to showcasing how sophisticated, clever, well-read, and knowledgeable he is.
CHUCK: Sometimes I think he gets underestimated, but he is, by definition, the most successful songwriter in music history.
JOHN: Absolutely, and what’s truly fascinating about McCartney is that he’s been constrained for so long by public expectations, by comparisons to John and George, and by the misconception that he was musically lightweight compared to John. In reality, you could argue that Paul essentially invented heavy metal when he wrote “Helter Skelter.” For a long time, Paul has attempted to push back against these perceptions, venturing into very avant-garde territory. Liverpool Sound Collage is probably the most uncommercial project a major star has ever released.
What I find inspiring about Paul is that since the Memory Almost Full album, he seems to have given up on chasing commercial radio airplay. His last two records, Electric Arguments (as The Fireman) and Kisses on the Bottom, are two of the best and least commercially driven albums of his career. Electric Arguments is just fantastic; it’s packed with songs that he could never realistically play in stadiums. That album was born from him and [producer] Youth just fooling around in the studio, spontaneously creating a song a day. And then Kisses on the Bottom, his jazz record with Diana Krall’s band, is gorgeous. It’s the first album he’s released where he doesn’t play any instruments and the first where he primarily sings in his higher vocal register. This vocal choice makes him sound older, more vulnerable, and in that sense, these two albums are among his most edgy and daring works because he’s no longer trying to cater to radio, and it’s liberating and brilliant.
CHUCK: I heard him perform “Highway” from Electric Arguments live once.
JOHN: I’ll be frank, I think “Highway” is a terrible song. I just can’t stand it; I don’t like the lyrics or the melody. However, I think “Dance Till We’re High” from the same album is a song he could easily use as an encore. He could replace “My Love” with “Dance Till We’re High.” He could even replace “Live and Let Die” with “Dance Till We’re High” and incorporate fireworks – it’s an incredibly romantic, melodic love ballad, and I personally choose to believe he’s singing it to Linda.
CHUCK: Did you ever get to meet Linda?
JOHN: No, I didn’t. The first time I worked with Paul was when she was quite ill. I did meet Heather Mills, his later wife. And I haven’t yet had the pleasure of meeting Nancy Shevell, his current wife.
CHUCK: What was Heather like?
JOHN: Oh, I didn’t spend enough time with her to form a clear impression. I briefly met her at the Concert for George at the Albert Hall, and then I saw her again at one of the landmine benefits at Cameron Crowe’s table. She came over, and I chatted with her for a short while. She seemed pleasant enough to me.
CHUCK: At The Concert For George, Paul began playing “Something” on a ukulele as a tribute to George. It was incredibly moving.
JOHN: Paul had actually been performing “Something” on ukulele before that concert, but yes, at the Concert for George, which was nominated for a Grammy, he performed it as a duet with Eric Clapton. He started on ukulele, and halfway through, the full band joined in, and Clapton took over the second verse. After that performance, Paul incorporated that arrangement into his own concerts. If you listen to Back in the U.S., Paul’s live album from 2002, it’s just Paul doing a simple three-minute version on ukulele. But if you listen to Good Evening New York City from 2009, you hear the evolution – he starts with the ukulele intro and then transitions into a much more lush, orchestrated arrangement.
CHUCK: I love Back in the U.S.
JOHN: It’s a really good live album. That was one of my favorite tours because it was the tour where Paul started incorporating a break in the middle of the show to do a solo acoustic set. He’d pick up a guitar and perform a few songs just by himself. You know, Bob Dylan hasn’t played a song with just acoustic guitar solo since 1992. But Paul did it and even played “You Never Give Me Your Money” on solo keyboard.
CHUCK: He famously messed up the words almost every night.
JOHN: Every single night he’d get the words wrong, yes! That became a bit of a running joke after the first hundred times he did it. But yes, it’s a fantastic recording. Everyone should give it a listen.
CHUCK: How do your current projects, like political humor, intersect with music or religion? And what other projects have you worked on where these themes have come together?
JOHN: For me, everything circles back to religion in some way. My father was a former Franciscan Brother, and my mother is an ex-nun. When I was a young child, my dad woke me up late one night to watch Jimmy Carter sign the Camp David Peace Accords between Israel and Egypt. Regardless of one’s political views on Jimmy Carter, my father was deeply moved that an American president could facilitate peace in a volatile region like the Middle East. He wanted his child to witness a Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim embracing in fellowship. To him, that embodied the highest ideals of Christianity and America.
I was too young to fully grasp the significance of it all. I knew who Jimmy Carter was, but Menachem Begin and Anwar El Sadat were just names to me. I thought Menachem Begin was cool because he had an eye patch. But I clearly sensed the profound impact it had on my father, who was both a deeply spiritual and politically engaged man. That event served as a guiding point for me, sparking my curiosity about politics. I wasn’t athletically inclined, but I could name all the presidents by the time I was six. I’ve always been drawn to both politics and religion, but I have a wide range of other passions too. I love acting, Shakespeare, stand-up comedy, and rock and roll. I’ve always envisioned a diverse career, exploring many different avenues. I enjoy variety in my work.
I even hosted America’s Funniest Home Videos for two seasons, which was certainly not a gig I ever anticipated doing, but I enjoyed the experience and learned a great deal. And yes, I do political stand-up, perform in Off-Broadway plays, act in films, and discuss politics on shows like Starting Point. I’ve also been a regular commentator on both FOX NEWS and MSNBC. For me, personal and professional growth comes from varied experiences. I don’t think I’m wired to do the same thing every day for 40 years.
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You can watch John Fugelsang’s full interview with George Harrison here.
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